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Old Posted: 16-02-2010 , 09:55 AM #1
rickaddams
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Default Heating Boiler Needs Replacing

Hi Guys

Ive been told my central heating boiler needs replacing (the house is just 8 years old) Im new to all this kinda thing so dont properly understand whats going on here....but it seems there's a leak somewhere (caused by I think he said by a setting on the boiler itself which directed water to my attic instead of just to my rads if that makes any sense)anyway small pools of water are leaking from the boiler on a daily basis (about a pint a day)and the rads keep getting air locked ...so been advised that the boiler and burner the whole system in fact needs replacing the burner itself cannot be repaired he says .....estimated cost with labour Eur 2000....just wondering if anyone could suggest a cheaper alternative heating system as I cant afford this expense right now ....he also says even if I turn off the system it will still leak and get worse as time goes on...in fairness Im not being put under any pressure at all here ..but kinda worried that this will one day burst or explode or something worse......all suggestions or advice welcome ..many thanx.

Rick
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Old Posted: 16-02-2010 , 07:44 PM #2
rainbow09
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Hello, what the plumber is saying sounds correct, thou sounds a bit pricey

* having your boiler set too high has caused hot water to shot up your expansion for safety reasons, this is why you have hot water in the attic,

* this expansion causes the system to take in fresh water

* fresh water over a period of time causes oxidization in the system causing the corrosion of radiators and in your case the boiler

* If the boiler is leaking then i'm afraid it is a new boiler

* depending on the boiler your plumber is planning on replacing your burner may also need replacing with it.

is your burner working could you explain what it is doing?

what make is your boiler?

Personally my advice would be to find a standard efficiency cast iron boiler either SIME or FERROLI these can be picked up with out the burner for around 550 for about 139,000 btu's, then seal the system with expansion vessel and filling loop, any drop in pressure then will indicate a further leak in the system.

These cast iron boilers have a high efficiency rating and a long life span, the SIME has a 12 year warranty. and is about 86% efficient.

hope this helps, if you require any more info don't hesitate to contact me
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Old Posted: 16-02-2010 , 08:39 PM #3
rickaddams
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Default Replacing Boiler

Thanx rainbow for the speedy response........enclosing some pix of the boiler itself.....the burner seems to be working away fine the rad closest to the burner here in the kitchen gets airlocked on a daily basis the other ones every now and then, we have a towel behind the boiler everynight where it leaks and that towel is saturated every morning just to give you an idea its more than a few drops though. These cast iron boilers sound like a good investment but as you say if theres a drop in pressure then it would be a waste of money as I might also need a new burner .Is there anyway of testing without investing so to speak?....you sound as though you know the business well. Btw whats 139,000 btu's ? If not Im probably just gonna have to save up and hope it works away until such a time that I can afford to invest in a new one . Thanx again for the info if you need anymore details please just ask ...appreciate your help on this as we are originally city folk and this is our first time having oil central heating so its all new to us......Regards

Rick
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Old Posted: 16-02-2010 , 09:51 PM #4
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BTU's is the unit measured for heat, each house requires a certain amount to heat, the bigger the house the bigger the requirement, therefore the bigger the boiler,

looking at the pictures, ur boiler is a room sealed utility boiler, meaning the cast iron boiler isn't an option for you. You will have to replace it with a utility boiler or move the boiler into the garage or boiler house.

these can still b picked up quite cheap, in the standard efficiency type. the burner itself has nothing to do with the pressure in the system.

Your boilers manufacturer has recently gone into liquidation and reopened as a new company, called GEM heating, dublin providers ltd deal with them and i know for a fact that they have a few of your boilers lying up there. These can be picked up quite cheap.

A new boiler is your only option really, unless you fancy taking out the boiler and taking a welding torch to it.
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Old Posted: 16-02-2010 , 10:39 PM #5
rickaddams
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Default Boiler

Thanx rainbow for that info learning something new everyday now eh lol.

Yep the plumber did say that the company had gone into liquidation ok but he said this particular model could not be got anymore so at least thats a bonus if they can still be got maybe I could maybe pick one up at a handy price and wouldnt have to worry about him taking our kitchen apart lol.....he says its a very confined space to work and a inch or two out could make it a very tricky job because of the tighness of the built in kitchen and the space between the boiler and cupboards.....

The quote he gave me was not from the same company or even the same boiler he didnt mention what name but said it was close enough to the dimensions of my own. Would you by any chance have a contact number/email/address for them as I cant find anything online been trying for the last half hour .

Really appreciate your help in all this rainbow and many thanx from us both here.
Regards

Rick
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Old Posted: 16-02-2010 , 10:49 PM #6
tudlytops
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Found something but it's in Tipp so dont know if it is the same company.

Gem Heating Products Ltd
Curraghpoor, Tipperary Town Rep of Ireland
062 74007

Just in case it helps :)
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Old Posted: 16-02-2010 , 10:58 PM #7
rickaddams
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Default Boiler

Thanx tudlytops......yes found something similar just now as well...Gerkros Heating Supplies Tipperary 062 71105 a diff number I know but they could be connected some way as the boiler is a Gerkros 95 Superior.made by Gem I think kinda confusing lol.....Ill give both those numbers a try in the morning .........many thanx
Regards

Rick
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Old Posted: 17-02-2010 , 09:49 AM #8
rickaddams
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Default Boiler

Hi Guys just an update since yesterday.......there is a place here in Tipperary not far from me actually which is a stroke of luck.....a new improved boiler condenser I think she said very similar to my own and it has an efficiency saving of 93% compared to 82% which sounds great......cost Eur 1000 which is about 500 cheaper than my last quote I reckon with about 500 labour costs on top of that. So thanks to JT I'm making headway here Ill keep you informed of any news....thanx again to rainbow tudlytops and misstake for the offer of a burner what a great place this is

Regards

Rick
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Old Posted: 17-02-2010 , 01:28 PM #9
rainbow09
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Gem/gerkross are the same boiler/company, there based in where you are,

saying that i wouldnt recommned a condensing boiler, for a few reasons

*they have a stainless steel heat exhanger with a life expectancy of at most about 8 years,

* if your system is as bad as you say, then odds are this will corrode or get blocked in half that

* to get that maximum Eff rating your boiler flow water has to be roughly that of the return water, about 30 degres, considerin your average heatin system runs at 70, the heat exchange needed to get that rating is not possible

* the new boiler will have a rielo RBD burner not the R40 you currently have, trust me these give trouble,

If your are installing this boiler to get the grant which is 700 euro your heatin controls need to be upgraded as well, meanig your system is split therefore you can heat the radiators or the cylinder or both at the same time. This is done with mini valves, clocks, and stats, and pack for this is abour 150 euro not including the plumbers labor and the pipe and fittings need to change system.

the savings compared to a condesing boiler and and standard one is worked out to b rougly half a pint of kero a day

the condensing boiler can not burn diesel.

I would still recommed that you get your local supplier to ring gem/gerkross and ask them if they still have any of the old ones lying about, I'd be nearly positive they do.

This then is a direct replacement for your own, no pipes need moving and will sit in exactly where your old one is, and if your any way handy you can do it urself
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Old Posted: 18-02-2010 , 08:23 PM #10
rickaddams
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Sorry for not getting back here sooner was waiting to hear from the Gem/Gerkross dealer.......thet say they went into liquidation Oct 2008 and had a few of my boilers lying around but they were sold off last year so unfor can't be got anymore. Thanx for letting me know about these new boilers..(Gem also say condensing boilers is all they do nowadays and are far more energy efficient ) read a few comments from diff people about these new boilers and most had nothing good to say about them. So kinda stuck in a jam at the moment deciding what to do....read this article about them as well..........

****Reliability**********

Condensing boilers have a reputation for being less reliable, requiring professional installation and regular service, and may suffer because installers and plumbers may not understand their operation.

Heat exchangers in condensing boilers are made of stainless steel, a combination of cast iron with a secondary heat exchanger made of stainless steel, or aluminum. Regular monitoring of the circulated liquid in condensing boilers with aluminum heat exchangers is vital. Maintenance of a slightly alkaline (pH 8 to 9) liquid with anti-corrosion and buffering agents reduces corrosion of the aluminum heat exchanger. There is a feeling among professionals in this field that the condensed liquid produced at the exhaust, which has a pH between 3 and 4, may corrode the aluminum heat exchanger and shorten the boiler's life. Empirical evidence proving this feeling has not been available to date, since condensing boilers with aluminum heat exchangers have not been in use long enough.

Condensing boiler technology is evolving rapidly. A fully condensing boiler with a cast iron heat exchanger has been introduced in the United States. It deals with the corrosive nature of the condensate produced in it by increasing the wall thickness of the heat exchanger sufficient to deliver an expected residential life of four to six decades and by discouraging the conditions that accelerate corrosion.*********

Im looking at the available grants for heating systems could you maybe reccomend one for me it would obviously have to be energy efficient and meet a certain criteria to avail of the grant would it have to be a condensing boiler?..have you any idea of the cost of installing such a system and the labour costs of updating the heating controlers you talked about ?

Appreciate your advice and help and for sticking with me on this as its a minefield out there when your a greenhorn to all this.

Many thanx again

Regards

Rick
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Old Posted: 19-02-2010 , 06:50 PM #11
rainbow09
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the grant is for condensing boilers only, weather it be gas or oil. it is for 700 to avail of it your heating controls must be upgraded to allow the heating of hot water, your radiators or both all seperate.

Most suppliers will sell a heating control pack for around 125 euro,

depending on how old the system is depends on how much plumbing work is done.

the plumber has to b SEI registered for you to avail of the grant

plumbers who are registered have had to spend money on training and extra insurance cover. instaltion prices have gone up to cover compared to a standard boiler.

once instaltion is complete the boiler has to b commisioned for you to have a warranty on the boiler, on rare occasions an inspector will come out and check the plumbers work, no grant will b paid till all work is up to spec

the grant has to be applied for before the boiler is installed with the boiler model and the plumbers SEI number. So if you are thinking about the grant dont buy any boiler till you get the go ahead.

labour pricing i dont know any thing about, I am in the supply end of things myself, based in louth,

is it possible to move the boiler outside or into a garage, then a cast iron boiler would be your way to go, saving on labour, hastle and giving you releiablity

any more probs come back to me
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Old Posted: 20-02-2010 , 02:45 AM #12
rickaddams
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Default Boiler

Hi rainbow

Gonna check that out over the weekend whether I can install an outside boiler with my system .....also meant to say that we have a big limescale probs here as well which dont help matters ......when you say outside would that mean the controls would be in the house or outside and would we also need to purchase a new a burner as well eventhough it seems to be working fine.? Think Ill knock this grant idea on the head if theyre giving you money towards the cost of this it'd prob cost an arm and a leg and then paying the installers on top of everything I could end up paying more then the original estimate Eur 2000. Anyway Ill see what info I can gather over the weekend and Ill write when I get some more news thanx again for your help......

Regards

Rick
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