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Old Posted: 08-07-2012 , 10:45 PM #16
Murrayhead
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.... thats way to complicated for me. You have something ....you want to give it away...give it. You have something .... you want to give it away to someone you 'feel' deserves it...hold interviews. I can see your criteria requires now at this stage people who can string more than 'two words' together and people who give things over those who don't. Thats cool...its a free world. You did not have to reply to me today, I'm okay with that. You are right I do not fit your criteria I understand. I would not have embarrassed myself by responding to your post had I known but Ya live and learn...

I imagine the practical use of Jumbletown allowing more than one person to reply to a post is not so much to create an opportunity for the 'giver' to make a decision as to create a queue should the 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc etc not be able to collect, not want it, be a time waster, have a mishap or change of mind etc etc... its a speedier and more practical function of the site.

regards h
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Old Posted: 08-07-2012 , 11:51 PM #17
TickTock
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Hi Murrayhead. I think you are taking this the wrong way, really. I understand you say you need items which you cannot afford and although our situations are not exactly the same, I canít afford to buy a lot of stuff either. But the way I look at it is this, there are probably many others in exactly the same situation as yourself who keep missing items. I would like a system which makes it fairer for all and also more helpful for the givers Ė I cannot see how you couldnít agree with that. What could be wrong in spreading the love? Are you not willing to share? There has been no malice in my posts, I assure you. Anyway Iíve said my piece and JT wonít be changing. (I can hear Chris clanking chains as he considers locking this thread up).
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Old Posted: 09-07-2012 , 12:43 AM #18
Murrayhead
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Yeah I can hear what you are saying Tick Toc. I just think you are making a very simple process complicated is all. I was mostly referring to Zag as I posted on his thread today and pm'd him but he did not respond and then reserved the items for someone else, which is entirely his prerogative. Then reading the post here I felt there was very moralistic approach to his criteria and in some way I felt shameful. I had to have a chat with myself about it and then I realised the amount of work it takes to find what you need and collect it, pay cost and spend time its not easy. 'Takers' provide a service too. We are not the 'poor relations' of this partnership, we need each other. When the cycle completes I will probably be donating my furniture to your grandchildren and so the cycle continues. I took no malice from your comment at all. I just think the site functions very well and if it ain't broke don't fix it.
As for their being plenty people 'missing out' I see loads of items not taken and other stuff being acquired 24/7 all over the country. I think sometimes you have to leave these things to the gods. When I came on here first I couldn't get any of the stuff I needed and then suddenly I started to get lucky. Sometimes I'm first on the list, sometimes I'm way down. The first does not guarantee I will get it and the second doesn't guarantee I won't. Id like to think when I am giving items back in I will let the site's basic and completely functional system do the job its built to do without any moral 'woo hah' from me, and the gods can do the rest :)
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Old Posted: 09-07-2012 , 02:23 AM #19
Chris P
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Hi zag,

To answer some of your queries:

Quote:
Originally Posted by zag
...My concern as a giver is that I have very little context to base my decision on.

The only context that any of us can be sure of is that you wish to pass on an item to someone that neither you nor Admin knows anything about. Your decision as to who gets the item is mostly arbitrary -- you simply choose from a list of names. (You might select a person closest to you, the first or seventh person on the list, a newbie, or the person who can collect the soonest, but their history of giving and/or taking on the site is only revealed by their number of posts; their "need" is unknowable/unverifiable, even if they write a note about being in need.) The key point is that being charitable or helping the "deserving" is a co-incidental "by-product" of the environmental imperative that informs the site. As the true "need" of any Taker is unknowable/unverifiable, it shouldn't enter into the Giving and Taking process. Some Takers may wish to try to read between the lines, but that's their business. As we state in umpteen posts around the forum, JumbleTown's business is "to help people free up space by passing on unwanted items" [and that] "the primary concern [or business, if you like] of Givers should be the desire to free up space in their home/workplace in an environmental way that helps the community."

Quote:
Originally Posted by zag
My request was with a view to *helping* me make a decision as a giver. While many givers simply want things out of their house to the first person to respond, some givers presumably want to be able to give it to one person over another.

Whether you give to Taker A or Taker B is your decision; however, the site is not configured to give you information about Taker A or B. As far as we're concerned, value judgements simply don't enter into the process. Either you wish to give away your item "blind" or you don't. If the latter is the case, then JumbleTown isn't for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zag
If there is not supposed to be a choice of taker, then why does the site allow more than one reply to a post ?
Murrayhead in post #16 has it spot-on: "...allowing more than one person to reply to a post is not so much to create an opportunity for the 'giver' to make a decision as to create a queue should the 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc etc not be able to collect etc." I'll add to that by saying that as it's not Admin's item, we are not in a position to say that you have to pass it on to the first, second, or third person who requests it. We do, however, limit expressions of interest to ten because that seems an ample number for a Taker to make their (mostly) arbitrary decision.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zag
If there is supposed to be a choice of taker, then how are givers supposed to make that choice? What information is it acceptable to use in the decision?

Givers can base their decision on the location of the Taker, or how soon they can collect, their number of previous posts, which may be all offers :) or all requests :) A Taker's posts on active ads should also be viewable, gremlins-aside. (Click on a Member's User Name to find their posts on active ads.) In short, a Giver who understands the site's purpose and modus operandi shouldn't care about a Taker's history.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zag
How do you get that information?

Look at the Taker's location, position on the list, number of posts etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zag
Is history on the site not as good an indicator as anything else?
The only available history about a Member is their join-date, their number of posts, and their posts on active ads. Extrapolate from that what you will...

Quote:
Originally Posted by zag
there's reference to this issue "being done to death" in previous posts. Does this not indicate perhaps that many givers have similar thoughts ? Maybe these thoughts are valid, given the number of times the discussion comes up.
Admin has had the above discussion on more threads than we care to remember...since 2006. (I had thought that the Support Forum post I link to above would put an end to them, but obviously not.) In short, the discussion would be pertinent if JumbleTown were a charity site, but it's not and never will be. It's an environmental site that can help Givers save money in disposal costs and can also, co-incidentally, help Takers.

Regards
Chris P
Admin
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Old Posted: 09-07-2012 , 09:14 AM #20
zag
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I am honestly sad that it has come to this. I've been a member for a good few years and like others I have met many nice people through it. I've received benefits and others have benefited from my things. This is my defintion of community.

Murrayhead - you have taken this up incorrectly - you don't know my criteria. I outlined some of them earlier in the post, but that's not everything. You didn't get one item yesterday, but I replied on post and texted you asking you to call me to pick up the other item you requested at a time that you indicated was good for you - "Helen - I sent you a text earlier tonight. It's reserved for you - please PM to set up a time."

My reference to "more than 2 words" is simply because a series of "next please" posts makes them all indistinguishable from each other. The posting guidelines include discussion of the sorts of reasons why people like more than "me next" responses - http://www.jumbletown.ie/forums/showthread.php?t=4673

Ultimately it boils down to this - "a Giver who understands the site's purpose and modus operandi shouldn't care about a Taker's history" - I guess this means I don't fit the model of a giver on Jumbletown. I care about more than simply freeing up floor space in my house. If this is wrong or bad then so be it.

z
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Old Posted: 09-07-2012 , 10:53 AM #21
Murrayhead
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I decided, giving the nature of request/response and time not to collect zag. I hope that did not inconvienance you. No hard feelings and happy jumbling. Helen
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Old Posted: 09-07-2012 , 12:09 PM #22
stanley83
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well said ticktock
it is nice when everyone gets a chance. when i miss out on somthing i hope somone who needs it just as much as me gets the item.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TickTock
Hi Murrayhead. I think you are taking this the wrong way, really. I understand you say you need items which you cannot afford and although our situations are not exactly the same, I canít afford to buy a lot of stuff either. But the way I look at it is this, there are probably many others in exactly the same situation as yourself who keep missing items. I would like a system which makes it fairer for all and also more helpful for the givers Ė I cannot see how you couldnít agree with that. What could be wrong in spreading the love? Are you not willing to share? There has been no malice in my posts, I assure you. Anyway Iíve said my piece and JT wonít be changing. (I can hear Chris clanking chains as he considers locking this thread up).
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Old Posted: 09-07-2012 , 12:29 PM #23
Murrayhead
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I'm beginning to see a pattern here :)

I'm really really not trying to be rude here but would you guys not be better off giving straight to a charity? I can see it means a lot to you NOT only that someone 'deserves' it more than another but that YOU have some extra tools to help you decide who 'deserves' it more.
Hmmmmm so that perhaps rules out donating to a charity, yeah its a bit of a quandary alright.

Give to charity V's make yourself feel godlike? ;)

Just a thought.
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Old Posted: 09-07-2012 , 12:36 PM #24
stanley83
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normally i search the wanted ads and pm to people who are genuinly looking for the item, that way you know that person really wants it. thats how i avoid the hooverers
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Old Posted: 09-07-2012 , 12:40 PM #25
Murrayhead
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Default good point!

Quote:
Originally Posted by stanley83
normally i search the wanted ads and pm to people who are genuinly looking for the item, that way you know that person really wants it. thats how i avoid the hooverers
That is a good idea Stanley83 and truly altruistic ... see, jumbletown is a gem to allow that service too. <3
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Old Posted: 09-07-2012 , 01:10 PM #26
Narizota
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I agree with that,too,Stanley83. Taking a look at the Wanted forum is always a good idea,though in the past I have offered stuff to people on there and not heard back,so it's not always reliable!


I am well aware that Jtown is not a charity but it does annoy me when I see the traders line up for something and then somebody who may really want it miss out. But that's the luck of the draw,I guess! I have given stuff away to people I thought needed them and seen the items up for sale the following week on another site.

Murrayhead,I wouldn't let this put you off asking for stuff,or anyone else giving stuff away,Jumbletown is still a great site. I have not only got my hands on stuff I have needed for the house/my kids but I have also managed to get rid of lots of stuff that were no longer of any use to me. I also made lots of friends along the way :)
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Old Posted: 09-07-2012 , 01:36 PM #27
TickTock
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I never dreamed this would ever happen on one of my posts on JT. It is very sad indeed. My commencement date is 2008, and I have never encountered this kind of atmosphere here before. It is a great pity and very disappointing. I felt my request for a history was a positive one for the site, the service and the users, and fair to all concerned. I have to accept the final decision of the Administrators. It is a pity one person took it so personally and is prepared to fight with very bitter words to prevent their history being seen. If my history were seen you might find that I have received more than I have given, but I donít really know as I canít remember all the items Iíve given. But I really would not mind my history being seen by anyone. A lot of my posts though are chatty ones and a lot of Ďwell doneí posts on the Before & After thread.

Thank you Stanley83 and Narizota for your brave support. I confess I wondered if anyone else would join in. When I started on JT I also missed many items, and still do, but hey ho, I accepted it and just enjoyed the competition, I always try to apply a pinch of good humour to everything. Also a lot of items are given and taken via PM so it wonít show on the thread and thatís fine too, both sides are happy.

I really think it is unwise to advise givers to stop giving on JT. JT would soon close down if all givers took that advice.

I too check out the wanted section, and I am there a few times as well myself, but you also find the traders lurking there too. As I said before, I cannot judge who is needy and who is not. I just feel there are more hooverers now than there used to be.

By the way, just a quick question for Chris, wasnít the site originally intended to keep our stuff out of landfill by moving along, thereby saving the planet? It was the eco-friendliness that kept me here, not just moving along.

Iím sorry for all this Chris, I never meant for this to get out of hand. I am finished now.
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Old Posted: 09-07-2012 , 01:38 PM #28
Murrayhead
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ah no I won't Narazota... :) last week I picked up some really lovely 1950's pieces locally and my son and I are doing them up as shabby chic pieces... two for my daughters room and two we hope to sell for a wee profit so I can get him a laptop for when he goes to college. I don't see anything wrong with that, its all a recycling process plus my kids are learning refurb skills/economics/environmental awareness and quality time with family. I found some of the comments about hoover's annoying. Any person who is willing to go out on cold dark evenings and gamble costs on seconds that other people are going to bin should not be looked down on especially if they are willing to work on the item and re-vamp it. Another aspect overlooked is some people cannot collect things and the service provided by some traders of moving on used furniture allows them access to this item that they may otherwise never have. The site allows EVERYONE to post so no reason 'hoovers' get all the stuff. I think jumbletown intelligently recognises these factors and thankfully allows this free trade regardless of sniping. I too may have a preference of who I give to in later and better times but like Stanly83 I'll find my own way of deciding and try not to be rude and condescending.
Anyhow thanks for all the comments, hope I haven't upset or offended anyone, some of what I've said is tongue in cheek and others I mean very sincerely :)

moving on now though.... h
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Old Posted: 09-07-2012 , 01:46 PM #29
Murrayhead
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Default tick tock

Don't be upset nobody is giving out to you...I can see your intentions are good. Maybe you are misunderstanding my point. I do truly understand yours. The history request is not my issue its the attitude with which people use it. I can clearly see you are generous and warm in attitude, Please do not be offended I did not intend that but I did feel I needed to say something regarding people being rude to to others and ask them not to judge too harshly when they don;t know them. That is all :) chin up
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Old Posted: 09-07-2012 , 08:08 PM #30
quinnp
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Zag. I totally agree with your points. I have benefited and given in equal measures on this site. It's totally karma at the end of the day and I usually keep all the pm's I've gotten so I have figured out who the reply to every offer I've put up are and just ignore those requests. I've no prob with an individual tacking if it's for themselves and in time they may be able to give themselves. Keep track of the sellers constantly on and then you should be ok. Its a great site and is good that most of us use and and benefit from swopping things that we don't use and things we do need. Keep up the good work jumbletown friends. Quinnp
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